Nonfiction with Steve Scott (Self Publishing Podcast #140)
The vast majority of SPP episodes so far have been applied mostly to fiction authors, which makes sense because Johnny, Sean and Dave are all primarily fiction authors and most of us watching/listening at home are the same. But, still, with Smarter Artist (Sterling & Stone’s nonfiction imprint) constantly growing and succeeding and more and more writers either dabbling in nonfiction or fully embracing it, it’s about time to show nonfiction some more love on SPP!
Enter Steve Scott, habits expert, kindle marketing superhero, and nonfiction-writing extraordinaire. He had some wonderful tips and tricks to share with us SPP listeners on how to outline, write, launch, and market a nonfiction book.
Of course, no matter what you write, this episode has plenty of gems that make it well worth listening to. Of special note, among other things are:
- How Steve comes up with his nonfiction book ideas
- What his new daily podcast is all about, and why you may want to check it out
- What’s working for Steve in the area of marketing, and what’s not, and why
- How Steve uses his email list and the 99-cent price point to sell more books
- How he uses his habits expertise to help him improve as a writer
Here’s the video version:
Welcome to the Self Publishing podcast where if you want something done right you’ve got to do it yourself, and now here are your hosts three guys who spend most of their time up on the trees Johnny, Sean and Dave.
Johnny: Hey everyone and welcome to the Self Publishing podcast, the podcast that follows three full time authors as we attempt to change the face of Indie publishing. Join us and our trailblazing guests as we shove aside boundaries, freely experiment and occasionally screw up. I’m Johnny B. Truant and my co hosts are Sean Platt and David Wright. And our guest today in about half hour or so is going to be Steve Scott who we all liked separately, like we were like hey you know who is cool Steve Scott oh yeah I’d like him too and then Sean and I met him…
Sean: Yeah Steve started great yeah and what’s awesome is that he sells nonfiction information books and Dave likes him, so that’s…
Johnny: It’s always a little dangerous when you say to somebody whose selling how to do things to Dave, but this time Dave came to us you know who is doing some cool stuff Steve Scott, and he did the same [crosstalk 00:01:32] guests who we’re having later, Nick Stevenson– Dave also found Nick so there you go.
Sean: Maybe it’s not that Steve Scott’s a good guy, maybe Dave is giving evil.
Dave: [Inaudible 00:01:46]
Sean: Could that be possible here? I think so; I think Dave is just evil.
Johnny: So it’s been a very interesting week, I finished Robot Proletariat this morning which is one of those projects over the holidays you never know whether you are going to have holiday hangover, so starting the year off right. Dave how’s your year going, all your resolutions still intact?
Dave: What? Yeah I yeah I figured if I wait to do my resolutions, then I can’t break them early so I’ll just delay.
Sean: That’s very good.
Dave: I figure I don’t know maybe sometime around October 11th or 15th or something I might be you know ready to make a year you know something for the whole year at that point.
Johnny: You should make your resolutions for 2015 on December 31st 2015, and then just say okay this was my resolution and then that lets you– because you win and then you’ll be like I want to resolve to wake up every day although that one is a little dicy for you still.
Dave: I’ll tell you what I did, I started up a new– have you ever heard of bullet journal?
Johnny: No but I always love getting breaking news because you never know where it’s going to go with Dave.
Dave: Bullet journal is…
Johnny: Is it to expouse your love of your neutral bullet?
Dave: Yes still in the box from last week by the way, I put it right back.
Johnny: You put it right in the box. My family was wondering about that, they were like well he wouldn’t put it back in the box right, so it’s out now right?
Dave: Yeah so no neutral bullet is like a journal in planning sort of thing, there’s a website. It’s very simplified and it’s cool, so you kind of like plan out you know your day, your week, your month, all that good stuff and you do little check boxes to everything that you’ve accomplished.
Dave: So okay this week I’m going to plan out my week and I have like all this stuff that I had put it in there and I– the first two days of it I did not check it one box each.
Sean: Fantastic. You’re an inspiration.
Dave: One of them was a writing box, so that’s good.
Sean: You know what you should do, you really should write an anti self help book.
Dave: Well that’s why I read Steve Scott because S.J. Scott as he is known…
Johnny: He’s known by several things.
Dave: I’m just going to write like a parody of him that’s probably what I‘m going to do, so it’s just feeding my– you know satirical nature.
Sean: But to be clear you’re not parodying him, you’re parodying yourself.
Dave: Oh yeah-yeah-yeah, no I’m-I’m weird, I’m his ideal customer actually in that I read all these things how to change yourself and then I won’t do any of it and then just buy like the next book. So he probably loves people like me, I’m like you know…
Sean: Dude you’re like butter on…
Dave: I know in the night clinic yeah.
Johnny: We have an exciting– I’m your number one fan. We have an exciting announcement to make. This is kind of cool, people have asked about this. We did the world builder summit that we’ve talked about back in– when was that back in September.
Johnny: Of last year.
Sean: September of last year remember you had to fly on 9/11?
Johnny: I had to fly on 9/11 that’s right, that was fun realizing that after the fact. Yeah and of course Amy and Monica from that summit now work with us and Garrett already did. So it’s a little incestuous apparently we just hire people that come but not really but that’s…
Sean: You know what it’s that we hire people that we like and when we get around people and they laugh at our jokes and shit we like them, I think that’s what it is.
Johnny: So there you go.
Dave: Not me I hate everyone.
Sean: He does, he actually maintained his hatred the whole time.
Johnny: And Calvin’s coming back too, he was at the last one but he is coming again. So that’s good, that’s a vote of confidence that everybody is coming back. One can’t come because he has some personal stuff but he wants to, so that said we are opening early bird registration for that, do you want to talk a little bit about it Sean?
Sean: Yeah sure.
Johnny: The early bird link– sorry I just wanted to give the link real quick I should have done that it’s sterlinandstone.net/colonist.
Sean: Yeah first of all a big shout out to both Amy and Monica who kind of made this happen because we’ve been going to get our shit together for the colonist session for a long time, and Amy– oh let’s get a hotel, let’s do this lets do this and Monica wrote the sales page that’s up right now which I actually love because I don’t want to write a sales page and I know Johnny [crosstalk 00:06:58]
Johnny: I ran screen man from that, I said can Monica write the sales page but I also like from her own point of view as an attendee.
Sean: Right, but that’s actually my favorite thing that it’s as a sales page written by somebody who is at the world builder summit. I just think that is the best perspective it can possibly come from you know and I love that, and so anyway thanks to Monica for getting in and thanks for Amy for you know making sure she sourced the hotel and… just had it in September and so we’re just doing it there but you can see that link on the page. It’s going to be April 18th and 19th and there is early bird pricing right now and that’s 25% off what it will be and as we get going the next couple of weeks we’ll flesh it out, we’ll know in more detail what we’re doing and the whens and the whys, but right now it’s basically there you know a lot cheaper for people who know they want to go now.
Johnny: Right I mean you don’t have to it right now but if you know you want to go you might as well get the discount and that’s untill January 28th is when that early birdle and then we’ll start filling any remaining spots. I’m just trying to– I know I screwed this up yesterday, total seats is 24 and I think six are taken, is that right?
Sean: I think that’s right yeah, so there’s 18 seats available although for some reason I have 16 in my head. Could there be another two that we’re not thinking of?
Johnny: I’m waiting for another YouTube comment from Amy saying you guys are the worst as she did yesterday…
Sean: To be fair to Amy she is totally right we are the worst.
Johnny: Yes we continue on in spite of ourselves so there you go I’m really looking forward to that.
Dave: I will say one cool thing about the last thing that we did in September, it was for me when I worked at the newspaper one of the most enjoyable things was our weekly meetings, where we would get together and like pitch ideas and talk about different stories that we wanted to do. And the reason I like that so much is because you’re with other creative people and you’re bouncing all these ideas around, and it’s the closest I had to collaboration till I met Sean. And now even Sean and I when we collaborate you know the brain storming sessions are always my favorite part of the week. Way better than the fucking writing that’s work but the brainstorming…
Sean: Yeah I agree with that brainstorming is way better than writing.
Johnny: You guys are crazy, I love writing.
Dave: It’s such a high and it’s so awesome to like get together with other people and like just come up with something, help each other create something, it’s just– there’s nothing quite like it and doing in person even awesome, that is one of the things you know Sean has been bugging me and Johnny both– well not Johnny [inaudible 00:10:02] about Johnny about moving to Austin and that is something I would enjoy very much going to Austin. You know getting together for the weekly story meetings. Of course I feel if I was in Austin and actually getting together for meetings there would be like seven meetings a week and absolutely no writing being done but…
Sean: Yeah but you probably give you the play sky rim and shit. You know what I loved about it is that there’s no resistance. There’s no friction between you know somebody has a question let’s say now the way the podcast runs, if somebody has a question on you know YouTube they ask and they leave a comment on YouTube with a question, we do our best to answer it and there’s just this big delay you know but being in a room where you can actually trade ideas and feed off of the energy Dave’s right, there’s nothing like that, there’s nothing like that at all. And it was exciting for us just because even though we have our story meetings individually and together you know every week you know pretty much without fail it’s still different in person, in person is magical you know.
Dave: I was actually happy for two whole days.
Johnny: It was amazing he was happy. I’m actually– the energy is so different that I’m going to be going down to for south by southwest again because Sean lives down there in March, and then in April is Colonist Session and then in May Sean and I we should keep trying to get Dave to do these things, but I think it’s a lost cause.
Sean: He’ll never do it.
Johnny: He’ll never go, in May we’re going to the authority conference in Denver for copy box thing.
Dave: [Inaudible 00:11:43]
Johnny: And so I mean that’s three months in a row and I don’t normally like to travel but it’s some– it’s magnified in a way. It’s like you– I don’t know you just the vibe of talking to somebody over a meal and Sean put it in terms of no friction. But if you’re talking to somebody over a meal it’s a different it’s a different energy it’s– you get a different quality of discussion just because it’s casual or you’re hanging out or you’re around a table with just a handful of people. It’s just really– and it tells you that you are taking it seriously, like every time I go to one of these I get better even if I don’t think I specifically learned anything. It’s just like I’m in a room with creative’s that’s what I think is Dave was talking about too.
It’s just like there is an energy and I don’t know it was really-really fantastic but what I thought was really amazing specifically about the last thing that we did was that things that came from everybody at that table are in are next to the Dream Engine sequel. The Nightmare Factory is number two, the Ruby Room is number three and that was a world that was sort of crowd sourced. Kind of crowd brainstormed at that session totally-totally shaped the way the world is going to work and they’re all writing books which will be available in a bundle before that session occurs, which is great. We’re going to throw the Dream Engine in and mass marketing there you go. Okay so just I’ll just read the link again its sterlingandstone.net/colonist if you want to check that out, and the early bird pricing is until the 20– I close the page 28th I think.
Sean: It’s the 28th say the 28th Amy is going to tell you, you are the worst.
Johnny: You guys are the worst, go ahead with the comments.
Dave: Josh Hilden says when I worked in the RPG role playing game industry we used to have yearly collaboration meetings, they were a hoot, and so we came up with some great ideas so definitely.
Sean: Yeah it’s fast, I liked how fast it was its not trading emails it’s just its conversations at its best.
Dave: Amy says bullet journaling seems awesome I support Dave trying it. Why do I feel like she wrote that almost sarcastically?
Johnny: No I support Dave trying everything; I’m waiting for something to work. Dave when you move to Austin eventually I’m not even kidding about this the sheer being there will influence everything that you do, like you will automatically get healthier just by being there and happy.
Sean: Yeah, I totally agree yeah I totally agree.
Dave: And the fact that food is like you know a little– yeah I’ll go off on food on our next show.
Johnny: Something new on Better off Undead Dave talking about food…
Sean: In case anybody is wondering this is a platinum reader. This month is going to be the very first episode of Redacted which is now finished, it’s done I sent it to the editor.
Johnny: I would say that I can’t wait for Dave to read it but he never will.
Dave: Do I get approval.
Johnny: You have to read it to get approval.
Sean: You have to read it.
Dave: You can’t write stuff about me.
Johnny: It’s not about you, it’s about Daniel Sturgis.
Sean: It’s about Daniel yeah Daniel is– we don’t know if he works for the NSA or McDonalds, either is possible but he has all these crazy crack pot theories and he…
Dave: I am not a conspiracy theorist.
Johnny: We exaggerated everybody’s personalities, there’s a bunch of stuff in there that isn’t true that’s I exaggerated mine, I’m a dipshit, Sean is over the top crazy.
Dave: But you are a dipshit, your IQ is less than ours.
Johnny: That’s true.
Sean: Yeah not you, Daniel. Daniel is telling us all about these crazy things that he suspects over [inaudible 00:15:46] is actually marinela [phonetic] that’s not getting put on the table fast enough. It’s pretty spectacular, so fans of BOU we have a special present for you and platinum readers we have a special present for you coming later this month.
Johnny: I feel like we’ve been doing a lot of sort of stuff that the audience would be interested in terms of moving self publishing our own stuff forward. But I don’t know how much of it if any is ready to be talked about or if it’s just– what is there, help me out here?
Sean: Well I think a lot of it is incubating is the problem; I think that we want to show some really cool tangible results before we start talking about stuff.
Sean: So and I think that all the stuff that we’re doing is basically– basically what we have right now is really exciting because our word for the year was optimize, right? And as of right now it’s January 9th and we’ve picked a lot of little things to optimize and they’re kind of kicking ass. But it’s just– it’s mostly where we can see you know the beak pecking at the shell and the bird is about to come out. Like we’ve got a nest full of eggs, and it’s really-really exciting but I still think it’s a little premature, but definitely pay attention in the next few weeks because there’s a lot of stuff that we want to talk about. There’s a lot of stuff that we are working on that is really exciting. And there’s a lot of stuff that you know we’ve kind of kept under wraps a little bit just because we want to produce first, but that’s all very-very exciting.
Johnny: And the– well I mean like Sean said the word for the year we talked about this on the last show is optimize and that does help me frame it because everything I’m doing I’m reminding myself okay this is optimizing this about not– I mean we are producing. Like I said I just wrapped Robot Proletariat, we’re beginning a new project tomorrow– not tomorrow Monday and Sean already gave me beats. So we are producing– we’re kind of producing at a pretty good clip honestly, but that said it isn’t about production like the stuff that we’re optimizing today a lot of it was produced in like 2013, which was our manic production year.
So 2013 was produce, 2014 was iterate– just slowly improve across all of our systems and then 2015 is let’s see. Let’s take what we already have and make it do more for us. Make it better and that’s really-really satisfying in these initial stages just because it’s like it’s the work-work-work-work hopefully reward. We’ve delayed gratification on a lot of stuff because we want to have our long term strategies in place and now is the point where I think we’re going to start to see we are starting to see actual results and it’s just very-very satisfying, but for anybody I think you can follow these same– even if you just have one book it’s just a different time frame.
Sean: Well I think a lot of the people who have looked at some of the things that we’ve done you know that we’ve been doing over the last couple of years I thought man those guys are crazy right? I think this is the year where hopefully by the end of the year if not sooner we’ll start to see a lot of that kind of you know click in the place and make sense, and you know we talk about iteration a lot and this is kind of a very good example of living out loud.
Like you’re seeing it, we make mistakes we fumble and we– you know we calibrate and we recover and we optimize and whatever, but you’re seeing that very much in real time and so that’s really exciting and a lot of the stuff that we’re just not quite talking about yet it’s mostly because we don’t want to be confusing you know we know in the past… Dave gets glaze eyes like for 90% of our meetings just like you know looking at his watch every five minutes and so…
Dave: Drawing pictures of your mom.
Sean: Really good idea to have more tangible things to talk about in more much… chunks and but needless to say that the year is starting off very strongly and we’re really excited both on a production level, but mostly for me I feel really happy about the optimization that we’re doing.
Johnny: So there you go you know this actually reminds me Dave how is the cover contest going for Leflore Debunked; oh I’m sorry that was my spontaneous ad read from last week.
Dave: Right here.
Sean: Yeah Johnny is breaking up but I…
Johnny: Yeey good what a great time for that to happen too.
Sean: One of the things that we are trying to optimize and Johnny and I had a long discussion about this on Tuesday is our covers you know we definitely need to optimize our covers.
Johnny: Oh our covers oh that reminds me of the spontaneous thing that I was mentioning beforehand. If you wanted to optimize your covers, if you said okay well there’s you know I’m delaying because my internet seem to be crapping up a little bit. If you wanted to optimize your covers you needed a new cover this is great trust me it’s good on the audio feed where would you go with that Dave?
Dave: Well back in the dark ages not too long ago if you wanted a cover and you didn’t know a designer you were just shit out of luck. You could just look at some of the covers on Amazon… see like these things… with comic sands fonts that would show you how awful it used to be until a bright beacon on the horizon appeared, 99 designs– it was like the hand of God coming down.
Dave: And offering covers to regular people like us, professional quality covers to regular people like us.
Johnny: You know I actually have a complaint Dave when you mentioned 99 designs last week and I went and tried to hire an assassin on your recommendation, and it really it didn’t work out at all. I mean I don’t want to go into it but well it’s just I’m not allowed to go into it yeah.
Dave: Well okay I may have been fibbing a little bit you know exaggerating a bit that you can find assassins on 99 designs, but you can…
Sean: That’s disappointing.
Dave: You can find book covers.
Johnny: And to be fair you can probably find book covers who are also assassins who might be on there, but it’s like a sideline thing.
Dave: Yeah and you probably shouldn’t bring that up in conversations with your designer. Are you also an assassin? Let me know maybe hide a little bit of code in the file that you send me. You should probably avoid that, but if you want a great book cover 99designs.com/spp that is the place to go. Because you will go there and you will tell them your idea say I have this great book that I have been wanting to write, but I need a professional cover can anybody help me. And you will have designers competing to help you. They will have great designs and more designs than you can possibly even…
Sean: Are they willing to go on a cage match.
Johnny: They will be competing so fiercely you may need to hire an assassin from a different site to pick some of them off.
Dave: No-no they keep resisting my suggestion for cage matches, I don’t know why.
Johnny: All right.
Dave: I guess but yeah we use 99 designs for a lot of our covers especially the covers that I just cannot fucking do, and they’ve done just remarkable great job each and every time.
Johnny: We’re trying to decide what we’re going to send 99 designs next. We have a few options on the table. We talked about doing Adult Video, we ended up not doing that, Donovan did that for us and it’s fantastic. We can talk about that more later, but we are we have a few options to what we are going to take to 99 designs next, so we love them.
Dave: Yeah I’ve got a few covers I want to do with them.
Johnny: So start your custom design today at 99 designs.com/spp, and if you use that link gets you the free power pack upgrade valued at 99 bucks, and that will make your contest stand out. You will generally get better results, they’ll highlight it and all that stuff. And if you don’t use it then they may hire an assassin to come and get you, so 99 designs.com/spp if you want to live.
Dave: And if you don’t like your design you have nothing to lose.
Johnny: Oh okay it’s…
Dave: And if you don’t like the design you don’t have to pay, so there you go. That’s in a first round though, that’s not like you know you can’t…
Johnny: You can’t get it use it on your cover and then say I don’t like this design, I’m not paying for it, that would…
Dave: Because then they will send the assassins.
Johnny: Right exactly and we know that they have those connections so…
Sean: Do assassins only come with power pack upgrades?
Johnny: I wonder if we’re the only advertiser for 99 designs, the only people who actually have interjected assassins into it.
Dave: We are the only ones brave enough to speak the truth, that’s what it is.
Johnny: I invited Steve just now, and then we have this awkward period where we’re waiting for him to show up because he…
Dave: May be a comment.
Johnny: Okay, let’s go ahead with the comments.
Sean: Oh wow he’s prompt.
Johnny: Look at that he was waiting.
Dave: Joe Barlow says Dave would make a fantastic self hurt author.
Sean: Awesome that’s a new genre, he invented that’s fantastic.
Dave: So Steve is here Steve I just got to say I’ve been reading all your books and I’m your ideal reader in that I want to change, but I am too damn lazy to change. So I buy all your books, read them and do absolutely nothing and then buy the next one, so you must love people like me.
Steve: You are my target demographic perfect. I thought you hate me because I’m a former internet marketer type of person has that background. So I thought you’d be pissed at the moment the entire time just not this episode.
Dave: Well I got a look a little more into you, so hold on maybe right into the show my opinion will change
Steve: No worries.
Dave: Do you watch Frank Curtin?
Steve: Oh yeah no I was part of his novel, kidding no not at all.
Steve: Hang up.
Sean: No I got to say I just I love what Steve does. Steve totally has the Write Publish Repeat model, and he does it for nonfiction and he does it very-very well. You know he understands that people want bite sized information; they want stuff that– his stuff is very consumable. You know he understands that readers don’t want to be– it’s the opposite of Write Publish Repeat if you know which is a big story.
Dave: Which is why I read his stuff and not you and…
Johnny: You wouldn’t read our stuff if it was a 7500 word episode of Redacted.
Dave: You show me and Sean and I might read it…
Sean: He’d read it if it came with cookies, that’s it. Look Steve right now I’m reading Level up Your Life. I just downloaded that yesterday and I’m reading that, and it’s so like to the point to the point to the point, and I was thinking okay this is very– its bullet point writing in a lot of it.
Sean: You know Fiction Unboxed and Write Publish Repeat are both stories right, there’s a lot of stories in there but some people don’t want that like at all, and our worst reviews reflect that. Some people just want information and your books are so excellent at doing that they give you a keyword rich title that’s a promise, and then the book fulfils that promise and it’s a great model.
Steve: Thank you now honestly I’ve actually been critiqued and actually some people told me I should put more stories into my books, that’s actually something I find is a personal challenge. I’m naturally a shy person, so I really like talking to myself. I’m like spending so much time in stories, and actually Sean the first time I ever heard of you was a fore mention converse and I cannot say his name, but I like that we’re– I’m going to destroy his name Renald– oh shit.
Steve: Thank you Comal River camp, he was really emphasis on keeping it legal and small and just really focus on what people want and just get to the point and try helping them, and try not to bring yourself too much into the narrative. But I actually did– I did love Write Publish Repeat. So I do think I absolutely love the idea of getting to know the author as a person. So I think there is some sort of a merging ground there between telling the story but also providing…
Sean: It’s just a totally different style.
Sean: But I think that what’s different is people are buying Write Publish Repeat. A lot of people who bought Write Publish Repeat they had some relationship with us you know even if it’s just listening to the podcast, they’ve heard us and they went and bought the book.
Dave: Or sexual.
Sean: But your way is really intelligent in the fact that it’s based on discovery. You know you know people are looking for an answer to this question. I’m going to answer that question ahead of time, and I’m going to find out what people asking ahead of time then answer that question. And it’s just a smart way of writing; it’s a smart way of doing business. It’s I’m sure you know much-much easier to do that with– this is much more relevant to nonfiction authors than fiction authors like let’s get that out of the way. This isn’t something that fiction authors can easily duplicate, but for nonfiction authors it’s smart. You’re looking for questions that people are answering and then you are intelligently answering those questions.
Steve: Yeah and actually what I’m just starting to do now that I have kind of established email list. As I’m asking point blank how I’m going to write a book about this subject, tell me your biggest challenge, and that’s like the old internet marketing adage but really is what challenges are you going through on a daily basis, and I’m writing a book about exercising everyday and I made a mistake of saying hey I’m going to give them for free to everyone that replies back. So I got 500 emails, oh my God again so all these people who suppose I’m going to give to all of them, but it was so eye opening just listening to all the stuff that people go through on a daily basis.
Sean: I bet your book helped to deal with that delusion.
Steve: No, it’s even worse now, I’m just very down to probably like when I think guys talk about [Inaudible] [00:30:41] something is buried under emails and it’s actually one of the reason I saw the podcast. Like kind of systematically go through emails and actually have a second use of them instead of actually just trying to email a person one time and then that piece of good content just lost out into the netherworld.
Sean: Yeah that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Johnny: Steve what…?
Dave: I did want to…
Johnny: Go ahead Dave.
Dave: I just want to point out for audio listeners that in Steve’s office behind him he has marathon medals hanging behind him, it’s like looking at the opposite of the office.
Sean: Well you have pie eating ribbons, don’t you?
Dave: I have boxes of [inaudible 00:31:17] cookies.
Steve: That was a gift from my fiancé because I was always throwing the medals all over the place and she is like you know you need a place to put it. So of course I strategically put it right where if I were to do a video and show how awesome athletic I am.
Johnny: I have one but it just wouldn’t look as impressive.
Dave: I hate you.
Johnny: To have one hanging there, Steve…
Dave: [Inaudible 00:31:41]
Sean: Steve only has 33 states to go and then he will have run in all 50 states.
Steve: That’s a lot like in my bucket list I try to do two of these every year, but I think by the time I hit my 50’s my body is going to be torn apart. So I’m not too sure how if I’m going to be able ever to do that.
Johnny: Steve why don’t you take us through– I mean I would try to do this but it’s just going to be easier if you do because you have Steve Scott, S.J. Scott and I think you have a third pen name right? And then each one is in a different niche and I totally forgot about the podcast. Can you take us across the bread the what you are doing with your platform?
Steve: Holy shit okay, it’s a lot and honestly I will give credit where credit is due and actually when I first started in self publishing I listened to you guys and once I got past the 30 minutes of rambling I’m holy shit these guys really know their stuff. When the podcast started out I figured it’s like September 2012 I think you guys were really only 20 episodes since the podcast so far but I just sat down and listened to every episode and I went back and listened to every episode again and listened very carefully as you guys kind of and that whole mess reminded me an analogy that you guy used [inaudible 00:32:51] I just had that be me, myself and I, so I kind of had to figure out on my own just by listening to your podcast and other podcast out there, but I originally started out as more of a blogger I– Dave I’m sorry I had internet marketing affiliate marketing background, let’s just get it out there, but I…
Sean: Dave just got a rage boner.
Johnny: Yeah it’s the best kind.
Steve: Yeah I had the blog and it wasn’t really getting much traction. The blog I was putting good content out there about how to build your email list, how to build affiliate market business because it was what I’ve been– what I was doing for about eight years before I got into self publishing. So I really felt like I had raised the groundwork, but I would get a lot of good comments on my blog posts but comments wouldn’t go anywhere that I didn’t really– I wasn’t really making money from actually talking about, I was actually making money from the kind of side affiliate marketing business that I had.
I just got to kindle publishing specifically just as a way of instead of writing really long blog posts I was just like I may just as well take once… one book and I just sell that one book at a really low value. I did it for a while I was doing a [Inaudible] [00:34:01] I was just giving away to all the people in my email list.
Johnny: You do mean low price not low value, correct?
Dave: Low value.
Steve: Oh shit.
Dave: That’s what most of the books out there are doing.
Sean: Dave calls that a confession.
Dave: We got you motherfucker.
Steve: No I meant low cost not low value. Seriously I thought actually even to say that email market wise specifically that’s the foundation of all my business that I was giving away for free to my email subscribers and for 2.99 I thought it was pretty much a steal. So anyway to make a long story short that is full of value not yes full of value. I eventually segway into the habits market and that was more just like a case study I was trying to show if I could just start from scratch a whole new brand of books and just see what it was like just to build something that is not related to internet marketing and just the same idea there just have specific habits or specific challenges, boil it down into one specific thing and just really try to– I guess the analogy is in each mile deep I try to take one topic really delve into that one topic.
Sean you said you level up your data, that’s actually I’m starting to feel the last couple of weeks I’m kind of getting away from trying to cover too much in the span of a book, but eventually I will kind of figure out the actual word count verses how much I get into one [crosstalk 00:35:21]
Sean: One thing I noticed– I’m sorry go ahead.
Steve: I’ll just say one thing to you guys, I’ll just try a bunch of stuff and just make a ton of mistakes as I go along.
Sean: Yeah mistakes are your best friend once you’ve like you know you make them and then like okay I’m done with that. Now I take all the good stuff and use it for the next thing that actually works, and I’m done with this stuff that doesn’t and I love that. I noticed that level up your day that a co-author, but I hadn’t noticed that before…
Sean: I think that maybe as your second book with coauthor, how is that working out?
Sean: How is the– because you said it was just you, yourself and I.
Steve: It’s interesting because I actually I guess it’s the power of actually meeting people in person. I met her in path slims one day event, you can’t just go there and [inaudible 00:36:09] your business for 30 minutes a piece, and I really thought that she was insanely intelligent, a good writer but she was basically acting like as a VA for someone, she was just helping with their business. But she was actually really building her own business like this is someone full of talent, they are just not really doing much, I said I’ve got to work with you.
As far as the working thing maybe I’m a little bit OCD, I just kind of like things myself. It’s– definitely enjoy it, but I don’t think I really truly have what you guys have with the actual [inaudible 00:36:37] back and forth. It’s more like all right the align show a really thorough almost college quality type of author strapped, let’s go over this second draft and I will do final of paper action, I’ll send to my team, I actually built a post production stuff. So it’s not quite the back and forth like it is it’s just– I tend to work on two or three books at the same time. So a lot of time I just like doing one thing setting it over no one [Inaudible] [00:37:03] I’ll pick it back up when I’m still with another book. I’m more of a systems person, I like having everything off my plate, I’m not trying to think about four or five books at the same time.
Johnny: But you segmented it in to different pen names to cover the different niches, right? So is it three? Is it sort of an internet marketing sort of niche habits, what are the breakdowns?
Steve: Yes exactly that I tried like everyone– well not like everyone, maybe not Dave. I tried to get lazy and outsource a little, like I tried to outsource…
Dave: I outsource nothing.
Steve: I tried to outsource the line of children’s books and that was pretty much a failure. So I did mention I did that and I’m pretty honest it’s about like actually on my podcast page. There’s actually a link to it. So I’m not trying to hide anything, it was a failed experiment. I tried– I did write a couple myself but they were literally 4000, 5000 words, really short content, it’s just basically here is a book about tires, let me go look.
I thought it was a good idea until everyone ripped off my model because I thought I’ll have like the Discovery Channel like the three most dangerous animals of the world. So I had that book and I thought it was pretty cool until next week when someone else like five other people had most dangerous. It was– the model was too replicable and it really wasn’t a part of me in the whole process. I just learnt a lesson that you really need to build a brand around the books, you can’t just throw them up on Amazon expect them to sell. You need to actually give a shit; you need to actually talk to the readers, all the stuff you guys talk about in the podcast.
Dave: So do you actually– now I’m beginning to wonder do you actually write your own books?
Steve: Yes absolutely now that’s part of all my experience. I just I tried to take a short cut and it bit me– not really bit me in the ass, I made my money back but I guess I did at the time I was just trying to test different things and just one of the things was out tried to turn to a publishing company and just have other writers and just not really what I was about, but it is something that I did try.
Johnny: You do test a lot right? So I was like I said I read 61 Ways to Sell More Nonfictions Books on Kindle. I haven’t read any of your habit books, but I’m in this phase right now where I’m just trying to absorb everything. So I’m just reading you know even if its repeats stuff that I know, which isn’t by any means always the case but I just want to hear it again, and you– one of the things that comes out is you’re really I wish I had this tendency. Like I want to know if I do something that I can expect X to cause Y, how much minutia, how much time does that take for you to keep track of all of that stuff?
Steve: It takes a decent amount of time, I actually really obsessed with track through Amazon associates, where I’ll go down through every granule level where every single campaign, like if I’m sending email, that will have a specific tracking link. If I said a follow up email that will have a tracking link, and it’s all done through associate where if you just go to Amazon.associate.com you can decide for the affiliate program and I know people said you can’t put your email, but I know Book Pub does it all time I’ve actually seen them do it, so I’m like if it’s good enough for Book Pub, it’s good enough for me.
Johnny: We do it.
Steve: Yeah so I try to really not even like I’m trying to make money through associate, I’m just trying to figure out Intel on my books. And I figured out pretty much across the board blog content the two emails I send out and other like a few small little Facebook things, individual Facebooks that I’m part of, those are the best selling, like those are what really moves it down, really is like an 80-20 works 80% really comes from two or three traffic sources, and it strips and traps everything else, So really kind of has helped me kind of figure out exactly what I need to be doing and really just get rid of all the other stuff.
Sean: That’s so important though, that’s so important to know where your efforts are actually producing results, and it’s hard to track that line of sight, but you know kudos to you for finding ways to do it because it means that you can stick to that 80% style.
Johnny: Are you finding the 80% stuff to be stuff that would be more universal to authors across the board maybe, or is it something that’s unique to Steve Scott and that business?
Steve: No I think it’s applied– I would say maybe my– the things I disregard maybe other people could do really well. For instance I’m terrible at social media, I think you guys said if there’s anything with Facebook with that more as a best seller like you’re just on Facebook. I’m the same way where I have two or three groups I’m really I’m part of those groups and I really try helping people, but as a general rule I don’t really go on Facebook. I don’t– I’m terrible at responding to personal messages, I don’t spend hours on Facebook.
So my results on social media is pretty much nonexistent, same thing Twitter, Pinterest, Google plus, all that I just tend to ignore it. But if someone is really a huge social media person and really built a platform on social media I’m sure they will get that result. But I would say almost across the board for me and I know you guys have it too it’s just email marketing email marketing, it’s just our biggest component of my business. So I try to do a good job of driving everyone to my email list before anything else.
Dave: What got you writing so much about habits, was this– is this something that is part of you that you’re somebody that does refine your own habits a lot?
Dave: So is this business okay so?
Steve: I actually did I would say kind of the topic episode I’ve actually in real life 2004 I was a hot mess. I was really just I was out of control with a lot of areas in my life and really I almost need and I’ve wrote this email as an auto responder really it’s true is how habits saved my life. And I really truly feel that developing habits really keeps me focused and I need routines, I need rituals, I need all these things because I’ve always looked out to my own devices [inaudible 00:42:56]
Dave: You’d be…
Steve: I’d just be a mess yeah I do instruction, that’s just something why I like habits. I do it anyway, so I just had a way to monetize my kind of weird little ticks that I have in my own personal life. I’m sorry I actually cut you off a little bit so please…
Dave: No-no-no, you’re in to the question that’s good, so but I did want to ask because the reason I found you was because you were somebody that had you know I just kept seeing your books all the time and the covers are good and I noticed they were on free, so it was easy to try you, you use KDP select. And then I started buying your other books or borrowing them on Kindle unlimited depending on how much I wanted the book. If it was something a little outside then you know maybe I wouldn’t buy I’ll try it out, but I noticed your content is very good whereas a lot of shit– metric shit turn off people the most, or in this genre of sort of self help and stuff, they just write really crappy stuff and yours is good, it’s honestly good and I give you the seal of approval for whatever that is.
Johnny: That is a valuable seal of approval.
Sean: That is yeah.
Dave: But it feels genuine to me, but I want to know how much is kindle select part of your success for your books and how do you sort of do it, because I imagine eventually somebody is going to get all your books for free and never buy any of them. So how do you get people like how do you get them to actually buy them rather that I’ll just wait till it’s free because obviously it probably will be if I wait long enough?
Steve: Well actually to answer your first question I’m pretty much old on kindle select I know you guys talk about– you guys and actually Jim [inaudible 00:44:40] also talk about building your own brand, going direct, that sort of thing. I totally I agree with that I just think long term that’s going to be my goal, just for now I’m trying to maximize what I can get through Amazon just by being smart about it. Well I actually with my internet marketing stuff, I tend to give it away now because I know some of the information is dated I know especially like I was talking to Johnny over email the 61 books, 61 ways to sell nonfiction– whatever that title was, I forget my own titles.
A lot of the stuff is outdated, but my habit books I feel is very-very applicable to people no matter when it is written. So I do– I almost never give those away for free, at the very minimal I actually that’s part of my strategy actually I sell for 99 cents during the first week. I have a whole launch sequence where I target my one list on the first day, I target my second list on the second day, I target Facebook and other things on the third day, fourth day is my blog, fifth day is a follow up sequence or a follow up email to my list. So it’s every single day I’m slowly pushing people on Amazon. I find that kind of trickle effect on Amazon really kind of I know David Gaughran would have a more eloquent way of saying it, it just seems to do something with Amazon where you are slowly pushing sales on.
Sean: He says pickle the algorithm.
Johnny: He does and he says it with a great Irish accent.
Steve: Yeah, way better accent than my Jersey accent.
Johnny: The– I think I have a…
Steve: That’s really gorgeous…
Johnny: Sorry I had the…
Dave: Maybe I’m going on there.
Johnny: Well I had the weird thing going on here, so am I better now?
Johnny: Yeah what I was going to say is…
Johnny: I think that with the Amazon trickle, I think that what’s occurring there is especially for nonfiction books. As I said a few times like I’m reading a lot of publishing books even though we have two of them, but what I’m noticing is if I buy 61 ways to publish damn it damn it Steve I had it too. 61 ways to publish– to sell more nonfiction books on kindle. So if I buy that which I did, then it’s the “also boughts” under it will contain– I don’t know Simon’s audio books for Indies, it would contain us, it would contain…
Johnny: And so I kind of leapfrogged especially with something with nonfiction I think you are going to find it really-really relevant “also boughts” and…
Johnny: I think that that’s– so it’s in your best interest to get it in as many hands as possible even through 99 cents just so that you’re in those “also boughts.”
Steve: Actually “also boughts” I think are a huge part of my strategic side. Every time I launch a new book within a week I see it, I see my book all over the place I get sick of seeing it, like I’m looking for that book, I know that book, I want something else. So it really is a strategy where just that it’s slow trickling out, and I don’t really care if the people already on my list, I want them to have the best possible deal. I want them to have it at 99 cents I don’t care if I make money; I just like knowing that eventually when it goes up to 2.99 that Amazon will do a lot of promotion for me
And obviously when Amazon starts really changing things around and when some of the benefits you get by publishing just solely on Amazon had to really go away I’ll move to other platforms but I think for now it’s kindle select or sorry KDP but also do audio books, print books, and I’m kind of delving my toes into foreign translations and actually selling rights to other countries and stuff, so I am trying to do a little bit what I can to not be just rely just on eBook market on Amazon.
Johnny: Do you– I had to run out and I know Dave asked about how you got into writing about habits. So you may have already answered this so somebody stop me if you have, do you think that there are– what habits would you say are most applicable to getting work done as a writer?
Steve: I would say the one that I really love and I will take credit for it a little bit earlier is kind of most important things and that really has been huge for me is just you get up every single morning, you sit down at your desk and you write down the two or three and really actually [Inaudible] [00:48:43] talks on essentials and just somehow priorities has become a plural word instead of singular but that’s a whole other conversation, but I really focus on one or two activities in three, but like I’ll write down very specifically, I’ll write 1500 words 2000 words of X book. I will record three podcast episodes.
I get really specific and these are high value tests, and I make sure I do that before– well I do like to take a quick walk before I start my actual work did a walk, come back and just work on those things before anything else. And as far as other actually habits for authors for me what helped is really the ever note app just– I actually create a stack roll like in the books. A notebook for every single kindle book idea and individual notes I’m constantly putting in there, so I just find my best thought is when I’m running or when I’m walking, so I’m constantly having stuff just pop in my head.
So I make sure I have my cell phone with me at all times not just because I really enjoy being connected to the world like that’s like the fact that I can just put all these ideas in ever note on a constant basis. I would say besides that honestly it’s [Inaudible] [00:49:49] techniques are really just focusing in on your writing with a time o’clock actually going on the background. Tracking your word counts kind of what you guys talk about just– I really try to take everything with my life for my business as a very systematic strategic type of approach to it. And just because actually Johnny said you’re out just because I’ve mentioned to Sean and Dave the fact that I am kind of a hot mess if I didn’t have all these systems in place, I’m actually such a [inaudible 00:50:16] so I kind of almost need these, the process is my life.
Dave: Now do you have days where you have unstructured days like do you lie yourself like just I’m just going to sit in front of the TV and watch Netflix all damn day? Do you have anything like that or?
Steve: Yeah definitely actually one of the things I actually tend to craft towards depression. Like when I was younger, so it’s I’ve learned that I can let myself just one of these days just sit there. I do have once every month or so I have these very dark days where I just can’t do anything. So I allow myself to go into a hole from 8 o’clock to 5 o’clock until my fiancé comes home and she kind of kicks me get off your ass and do shit.
And then I get back and [inaudible 00:51:02] like pitying yourself, but I definitely have those days where I just completely fall off the wagon. But I’ve learned through the number of years is just kind of forgive myself, tomorrow is a new day get back up and just continue. But I think also a lot of the times that MIT thing I talked about actually helped sometimes I’m feeling on a certain day. If I do one or two of those things and I have 30 emails on my inbox I’m like screw it, I’m not going to worry about my email it’s just not going to happen. I learned to mass evaluate stuff and then feel like all right just take the rest of the day off because you’re just not into it.
Dave: Yeah I’m going to guess that a lot of writers you know have depressions and I think writers…
Dave: In general, I mean I’m generalizing here but I think a lot of writers are sensitive sort of people. They think more about shit and they get down on themselves. So it is difficult, so yeah that is why I like your habits books because the ideal me is somebody that’s actually doing what you’re doing, but that’s not the real me. So there’s like bizzarro [phonetic] Dave, but yeah I definitely…
Sean: Dave’s like a hoarder who likes to go to the container store.
Dave: I do yeah you got me there.
Johnny: Dave was describing that during in a recent episode that during the course of the day he transitions from Mr. Hyde into Dr. Jekyll slowly, and then at the end of the day he is a different person and he makes grand plans which fall apart when you know Mr. Hyde takes over again in the morning.
Dave: Here’s what– I’m going to start right now, my evening I’ll just save this for Better Off Undead. Okay I’m a night person I’m generally up all damn night in circumstances. I had a night job forever and it just kind of naturally how I am even though I kind of fucking hate it. But what happens is I’ll wake up you know noon or something maybe a little bit later, I’ll attempt to work then late at night time like all of a sudden like just when I’m most tired I feel like so like oh I’m going to do this I’m going to do that, I’m like a drug dealer a drug user that’s playing with orders.
Johnny: Neutral bullets.
Dave: But I like planning out my day, planning out my week, my month, my year. I’m like Sean, just planning everything out, I’ll be writing it down, I’ll be reading your books before I go to sleep. Yeah that’s a highlight and shit yeah I’m going to do that, and then I wake up and I just feel God awful tired and I just I don’t want to fucking do any of that stuff that I wanted to do like eight hours ago.
Steve: Well I was actually a guy I talked to, he is super energetic so maybe the book might not be free but I’ll help everyone.
Johnny: Pay for him.
Steve: Yeah it’s actually my drug dealer down the road. This guy whoever he wrote the morning miracle and obviously you’re not a morning person you’ll have to get up at five o’clock in the morning like he does. But I would almost suggest a reverse of that because I find I can’t read nonfiction, I can’t read anything inspirational or [inaudible 00:53:59] and actually that’s why I like reading fiction, horror, that sort of stuff before going to bed, actually just reading kind of lulls me to sleep.
I don’t say that positive inspirational do the first thing in the morning like I’ll necessarily say you have to do have to do a dozen affirmations and all that kind of woo-woo stuff, perhaps it’s go out take– for me I find it’s really helped me personally just go and take a 30 minute walk almost right away, just kind of get your head clear, come back maybe read stuff that you find inspirational and then start writing, but obviously you don’t want to ever start messing around with your writing schedule because as for me I’m probably like you guys that’s the most important thing, but maybe doing something kind of gets you like all right lets fucking do this, let’s go.
Dave: In a frame of mind, yeah I’ll try that.
Johnny: One of the things that the concepts that Steve you’ve talked about is habit stacking I mean you had a really popular book habit stacking, and I know Sean read it I haven’t read it yet, but the idea of stacking habits is I mean I think that that’s something we can all learn from too.
Johnny: It’s once you do something I mean I know this isn’t like literally what you say, but once I do something right I’m more likely to do something else right, there’s an upward spiral and a downward spiral depending on what I chose to do right now.
Dave: It’s also the limited amount of will power that we have that I know other books have talked about as well that the harder you are trying to do something the more likely you’re going to fuck it up later on because you use all your will power or something, right?
Steve: Yeah absolutely, the only reason I’m able to exercise at the end of the day is because I treat myself to 20 something ideas, but if I was just getting started I wouldn’t tell people to go run at the end of the day because they’re just– there’s a concept of ego to please like you mentioned with will power. Just when you keep on making all these small decisions, when you keep doing all these things throughout the day you slow– everything sort of starts decreasing ability to handle any sort of stress.
That’s why people after a long day their wife or husband says one thing and they’ll do something lashing out because they’ve been holding it all day job and their bosses have been ripping into them they’re dealing with stupid people and they just– the constant stress of having to make all decisions doing stuff is just they’re just done. So as far as for writers or in general I just find that the earlier part of day you can get stuff done, it’s more optimal but obviously you really have to understand your own natural rhythms, like the only reason I could write in the mornings is I train myself to do so, but I’m naturally a night person but if you really are a night person don’t try to be one that’s super up in the morning 4 o’clock in the morning trying to tackle the day, you really have to understand how you work best.
Sean: We should do that for Dave but as a reality show. Dave wakes up every morning hoping that Johnny and I both suffer from ego depletion.
Steve: Well I met you guys in person holy shit you guys are energetic.
Dave: Not me, he meant the other two not me.
Steve: I meant Sean and Johnny.
Sean: Just to be clear Dave is…
Dave: I will never give up energetic is one of the worst about me.
Johnny: I tend to be on in public when I’m with people who are interested in speaking to me in a public sort of fashion like that. It was at author marketing live was when we met, and then I do get energetic. I’m actually not nearly as energetic ongoing, but I’m not, not energetic either but…
Sean: Yeah I thrive on energy like if were probably bouncing ideas back and forth, like we were talking about the– you know the summit session in September earlier.
Sean: And that was very energetic the whole entire time because you’ve got all these ideas everywhere right it’s the crackling, but yeah a lot of times like my daughter is like that and I mean lately she’s just– it’s constant and I love her so much but sometimes I’m like oh my God.
Johnny: Yeah Hayley is like if you took Sean and had him on crack or something, like if you take normal Sean put him on crack.
Dave: Hey Sean that feeling you get when Hayley is like on, when she’s like 20 on the valium, that’s how I feel with you.
Dave: Now you know, enjoy it.
Sean: Yeah it’s relentless.
Johnny: So Steve what’s the best place for I mean you have so many different places to send people and different books and stuff what’s– for this audience what’s the best place to find you?
Steve: Actually I just started a podcast like I mentioned before, it’s selfpublishingquestions.com, but like I mentioned before it’s more of an off shoot. I was getting a ton of email, I get 40-60 emails a day, it’s just overwhelming. So I just turn these emails into podcast episodes, so actually it’s more of a 5-15 minute long short daily podcast where I just answer people questions. I try to do the whole speed thing where I actually play it live, I try to actually be a little more professional language some of the other stuff I do, but yeah just go to selfpublishingquestions.com, I think I had 17– sorry 16 episodes published so far so.
Sean: Just to be clear when we do that later this year we’re not stealing your idea; it was already on the docket.
Steve: I heard you guys talk about it, I think [inaudible 00:59:19] not quite the daily podcast, but I definitely know he is doing shorter form answering questions, but I stole the idea from Pat Flynn, I have to be honest that he has…
Sean: Oh ask pat yeah, it is such a great format, it just is, it’s smart, it’s [inaudible 00:59:32] yeah it’s…
Steve: [Inaudible 00:59:35] every single question could be an SEO question; it could be something I’m trying to actually show notes, actually write it out. So like I get a little bit of Google, so I am trying to slowly segway myself out of my inbox while also trying to build a brand at the same time.
Johnny: I want to collaborate with Steve because he’s got all the organization that we don’t, like we can put that together like show notes and shit, like what, what is that?
Steve: I actually I shed a little tear because I launched my podcast on January 1st and I have a Filipino VA who works 40 hours and this is I guess Pope is going to Philippines, so she wants to spend the next few weeks doing I don’t know Pope stuff.
Dave: [inaudible 01:00:21]
Steve: So she’s like skip town and no you can’t skip town is when I need you the most, obviously I’m not going to say no.
Dave: Who’s more important me or the pope? Come on.
Sean: You should try that and see what she says.
Johnny: I can see the newspaper headline Steve Scott versus Pope Showdown.
Steve: Yeah I saw his poster he seems like an awesome pope like he is pretty liberal with this thing and I do appreciate that, but yeah so she skipped town so I’m trying to do all this stuff at the same time, but once she gets back I really firmly I’m going to keep building teams. I have a podcast and a rival podcast writer for the actual show notes, and she’ll do all the graphics and all the uploading, so I hope to someday be able to just look at excel files, see the question and answer and that’s all I will have to do so.
Steve: Hopefully it won’t get to that point, again it’s all about systems, I really try to be as systematic as possible, obviously things break all the time and I’m trying to…
Sean: But you understand going into it so.
Sean: That’s 90% of it or 80%.
Dave: I want to collaborate with Steve too like a point kind of point sort of book, like this is what you do and this is what Dave does.
Steve: Actually that will be kind of awesome if you all learn how to do some of [Inaudible] [01:01:29] pushing through a book.
Johnny: It would be awesome, Dave always makes these jokes about things that really would be awesome to do, and then we never actually do them because they’re a joke.
Dave: Johnny writes them.
Sean: He seriously doesn’t think that how to win your marriage would be an awesome book, but it so would.
Johnny: I think I just got an idea for a new Redacted episode.
Steve: Wait how to win your marriage is like how to actually have communications or, how to win every argument and probably filter the stuff down.
Johnny: No, you’re just winning the marriage like he said, that’s a Better Off Undead episode title is how to win your marriage where Dave talked about only one.
Steve: I’m sorry guys I haven’t really checked out Better Off Undead.
Dave: Wow, get the fuck off of here.
Sean: That’s because you actually have respect for yourself and your schedule.
Steve: I love you guys, I love Better Off Undead and active– your stories are epic, I had to really focus because I try to listen to the podcast as a business man and I try– there are like 20 other podcast I have to check out on regular basis.
Dave: There’s no value in Better off Undead.
Johnny: Nobody ever should apologize for not listening to Better off Undead, like do you think you’re offending us please.
Sean: They should brag about having if he stayed away.
Johnny: You should be telling us how you haven’t listened to any and that will make us respect you.
Steve: The one story about that girl cuddling a monster it shit off I laughed my ass off, she gave him a– that was a great, I do like the story, it is funny as hell but I tried to be…
Steve: I try to be business oriented.
Sean: The show is Better Off Undead.
Dave: We will send you a link to the only episode of Better off Undead you ever need to listen to you know I wonder even dark days where you’re in a hole you can listen to this and it will either dig you deeper or bring you out.
Johnny: Is it the very Davey Christmas.
Dave: Very Davey Christmas, it is the one I you know I highly recommend so…
Steve: That’s a lighter down already, haven’t been mentioned before.
Dave: It was last December, it was great.
Johnny: There you go, so thanks Steve so much for being on Steve Scott.
Steve: My pleasure.
Johnny: S.J. Scott, he is all sorts of people, check out selfpublishingquestion.com. I am going to subscribe to that; I enjoy new feeding my brain with self publishing stuff, so I’m going to check it out.
Sean: I’ll subscribe to that too.
Steve: Thanks guys.
Johnny: Thanks everybody for listening to the Self Publishing podcast. If you would like to get all of our best stuff without all of the off topic bullshit please check out or publishing guide, Write Publish Repeat the no luck required guide to self publishing success at selfpublishingpodcast.com/wpr. Thanks so much guys and we will see you next week.
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